Comments on: Cry For A Shadow https://www.beatlesbible.com Not quite as popular as Jesus... Mon, 01 Apr 2019 15:50:44 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.1.1 By: Richard Wheatley https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-503652 Sun, 31 Mar 2019 14:27:06 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-503652 In the context of this very interesting discussion- which I note contains a post from Warren Bennett,the son of the Shadows drummer Brian Bennett-I came across a passage in Philip Norman’s biography of the Beatles entitled “Shout”,which I think is of some relevance.I quote from p107: “Kaempfert also liked an instrumental which George had worked on as a parody of Cliff Richard’s group,the Shadows.This, too, was taped under the ironic title ‘Cry For A Shadow’.”

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By: MikeP https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-500508 Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:21:41 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-500508 It appears Neil added the “Marvin” connection after-the-fact. He originally stated that the song was about Williams and (as others have noted) has frequently “gloated” (my word- humorously added) that he owns a guitar once owned by Williams.
The Shadows were not known to any degree in North America until much later, and that was mainly through Beatles documentaries (hardly known even today – few could even name a song of theirs). We had the great Ventures – didn’t need anyone else 😉 .

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By: Roy Pryer https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-453233 Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:38:02 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-453233 If George was so good then why did paul play lead guitar on many of their records ( Ticket to ride, Another girl etc) George was definitely no Hank Marvin.

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By: Roy Pryer https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-453228 Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:43:05 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-453228 Its often stated that the Beatles were the first group to write their own songs. Not true “The Shadows” were writing a lot of Cliffs stuff & their own about 5 years before the Beatles appeared. But this fact is often ignored in the same way that Jimi Hendrix is credited with popularising the Fender Strat in england when it was Hank Marvin 7 years earlier. SAY N MORE!

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By: Roy Pryer https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-453227 Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:29:10 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-453227 Very true. & Hank was 50 times the guitarist George was.

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By: dgw28 https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-452699 Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:21:33 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-452699 I would agree that the Shadows had little impact on the Beatles success, but we should not underestimate their influence in the U.K. The Shadow’s Hank Marvin is revered by many British rock guitar greats.

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By: Che Stadium https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-452484 Tue, 24 Oct 2017 04:55:24 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-452484 Some interesting comments regarding who played what, and on which guitar(s). I believe George is playing the lead on this song, because it sounds like George…..when he’s rehearsed. There are certainly examples of George sounding not so rehearsed at times, but I suspect this recording session was somewhat of a big deal to them at the time, so they likely would have approached it well prepared. I also believe George is using Tony Sheridan’s ES-175, despite Sheridan’s insistence that John used it. (he may have lent it to John…..that doesn’t mean John used it, and there is no indication that Sheridan was at the studio to verify Lennon’s actual use of the guitar) The rhythm guitar to me is without a doubt, Lennon’s Rickenbacker…….No other guitar sounds like a short scale Rickenbacker. There is no reason John would not have used it, he was very fond of it, despite Sheridan’s dislike of the instrument. Listen to the rhythm guitar on the BBC recordings of That’s Alright Mama, and Soldier of Love as examples of that Rickenbacker sound. George had the Futurma at the time, so he is the best candidate to be playing Sheridan’s guitar. Cry For a Shadow is not a work of technical virtuosity, and easily within the Beatles capabilities at the time, provided they were prepared. Even Pete Best sounds passable on this, albeit a rare example.

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By: MikeP https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-450444 Tue, 14 Feb 2017 02:33:39 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-450444 Harrison also said that Marvin was of no influence on him at all. And many comments through the years by both Harrison and Lennon reveal their low opinion of the Shadows music; i.e. “Shadows sh*t”, “…crap like the Shadows”, etc.

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By: Eric Cartman https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-450144 Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:59:28 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-450144 Yeah but I think that the main reason they didn’t like the shadows was because they were cliff richard’s backing band

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By: SaxonMothersSon https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-449701 Tue, 01 Nov 2016 02:38:07 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-449701 Casting Light on the Shadows…we bought everything the Beatles released in ’64. Cry wasn’t released here in the USA as far as I know. As far as Cliff and the Shadows, they were really pushed here, early “British Invasion” as heroes of the Beatles. Finally, somebody bought one of their records. Our basic reaction, across the board, was, eww, why would the Beatles ever like them?

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By: Cheddar Cheese https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-448710 Thu, 09 Jun 2016 20:41:31 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-448710 The lead was most definitely George. He probably played the Futurama, but some argue it’s John’s Rickenbacker. On other songs the lead occasionally truly sounds more like a hollow body. On this song, and possibly others, John plays Tony’s Gibson.

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By: John Leper https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-448649 Tue, 31 May 2016 20:41:56 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-448649 John’s lead playing was atrocious, needless to say. At least in the Hamburg years.

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By: GERRY https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-447053 Thu, 12 Nov 2015 00:04:02 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-447053 I have read the comments on here . and the BEATLES were great but the SHADOWS ruled the roost here from 1958 to 1963. there guitar playing is second to none . HANK MARVIN is one of the best ever and its him that started the guitar epidemic here . the BEATLES did everything they could not to be the SHADOWS because they new they couldnt compete against them . both bands were wonderful both trailblazers . MOVE IT with CLIFF is one of the greatest records in british history that and shaking all over JOHNNY KIDD and the PIRATES. ive always thought the BEATLES POETS TO MUSIC but the SHADOWS supreme musicians. over here we talk about the missing link . well the SHADOWS are the missing link in AMERICA you had the VENTURES they did nothing here same as the SHADOWS did nothing in the USA i think the SHADOWS AND CLIFF would have made it over the states but CLIFF wanted to come home after a month so to be honnest that was that HANK MARVIN is just to good he was backing GENE VINCENT and the like when he was 18 years old he certainly served an aprentiship

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By: Bruce Duncan https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-446833 Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:28:20 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-446833 To clear up one area of seeming confusion regarding the origins of “Apache” as a U.S. Hit, and the fact that the hit version was that of Jorgen Ingmann, and not Hank Marvin and The Shadows – the story as I had it, was that after Weedon’s weak effort, Jerry Lordan, in a hurry (for some reason not gone into) to get the recording done, and released in the U.S., put it out for other artists. The Shads raced into the studio to do it, (their 1960 video production of the song, available on youtube, is a revelation of the meaning of the word COOL). Ingmann’s producer got hold of the song, and likewise raced into recording the song, with Ingmann.

The Shads version, by all rights, should have been on American radio playlists first, but lackadaisical production and weak promo caused unforgivable delays, which allowed Ingmann’s version to get to America first, and therefore become the US hit, the definitive version of the song to U.S. audiences. As a long-time guitarist, who loves the song “Apache”, and all versions I’ve heard, I have to say that I consider Hank’s treatment to be the absolute strongest and most unique of the bunch. After decades of playing Apache ala Jorgen Ingmann and The Ventures, once I heard the song played by The Shadows, it was like having an epiphany – and from that day forward, I have played it Hank Marvin style, and will be playing it that way until they pry the guitar out of my cold dead hands.

The Shadows are, without a doubt, one of the most under-rated rock acts of all time. I also, like most of the other commenters, absolutely LOVE the Beatles, and consider them the most important Rock & Roll band of all time, but I do think it is significant that the Queen saw fit to bestow knighthood on Sir Hank, just as she did on Sirs John, Paul, George and Ringo! GOOD JOB THAT!

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By: Kenny Miles https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-443661 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 02:35:05 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-443661 Btw Pete Best did a great job on drums !!!

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By: nycvelo https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-443599 Wed, 04 Feb 2015 06:11:58 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-443599 Neil Youmg definitely knew Hank Marvin’s work. One of his first bands, the Squires, played Shadows covers and released The Sulta, a self-penned single that’s heavy on the Hank Marvin influence…

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By: Pablo Castro https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-442914 Sat, 27 Dec 2014 07:28:01 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-442914 The guitar solo on I Saw Her Standing There was NOT EDITED. All basic instruments and vocals on the Please Please Me album were recorded live, with minimal overdubs on vocals , harmonica, piano. But that guitar solo was live, and by the way, it was take one !

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By: Joseph Brush https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-442580 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 07:20:43 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-442580 I mentioned over five years ago that some commenters here forget that this is a Beatles website.

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By: Hoeras https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-440730 Tue, 02 Sep 2014 02:16:20 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-440730 I find some of the comments here rather incoherent and frazzled.

I am a HUGE fan of BOTH bands.

I happen to be old enough and remember as a 9 year old the sound of Apache while at summer camp and nobody had ever heard a guitar sound that way, not even from America. Indeed Hank Marvin has admitted he got that sound by mistake and happenstance as he got the Stratocaster which was fitted with heavy strings and had trouble bending them with his left hand and figured that American players and there better diet meant they had stronger hands, remember they had no videos to watch as we do today.He WANTED to sound like them and couldn’t and ended up in a different place. Add that an echo box that did something he liked and he, to use his own words as I remember it, “stumbled” across this sound. It was not later that he realised that the Americans use lighter gauge banjo strings, easy to bend. It was all a terrible but wonderful mistake. But that sound also led to a technique that we see copied by Young, Beck, Gilmour and many others, the sound of bending the notes using the whammy bar and not just the left hand and often doing both during the same song, and they have all recognised publicly on many occasions where it started. Now many guitar players do it and don’t know where it started as they see later guitar players doing it.

The point is simple, All the British guitar players at that time was looking ‘blindly’ at the US and wanted to sound like them. But in the end they came up with something new, a progression. Even The Beatles were.

BTW, after the Beatles hit the Big Time, the Shadows did a cheeky number on the Beatles mersey sound, listen to “Rhythm and Greens” and the video has the Shadows wearing long hair and all. This is a very raunchy Hank on the lead. Note that “Cry For A Shadow” was at a time when The Shadows were the Big Band and when The Shadows did “Rhythm and Greens”, at that time The Beatles were the Big Band. Nice payback but all of it was just a cheeky backhander and good fun. But Marvin doing a Harrison beats Harrison doing Marvin, but a little unfair to Harrison considering the age difference and the level of experience.

BOTH bands shared Abbey Road and Hank was later quoted as saying “We hung out with those guys” and “we knew they were going to be big” and that there was no silly animosity and just friendly rivalry, and in fact some of the Shad guys helped out The Beatles on the technical side (my late Father was a recording engineer in those days).

I loved The Shadows as a kid when they came out, I loved The Beatles when they came out and I consider them to be the greatest band of all time – no question about it. But I know in my guts that it started with The Shads and grew on to become the British Invasion, and not just of America.

Just to set the record straight re Apache, it was written by Jerry Lordan who tried to get it recorded and was disappointed with Bert Weedon’s effort and canned it. He took it to Jet Harris and hence The Shadows – and that is history.

What is lesser known is that the main riff/lick in Apache was all Hank Marvin and every cover includes it.

Why is that important? It proves The Shadows version was the original. Even The Beatles copied it, so did The Ventures. Marvin gets no credit for inventing what may arguably be the single greatest phrase on a guitar up to that time and instantly recognisable anywhere in the world. THAT is called influence.

Jorgen Ingman had the big hit in the US and likewise used the Marvin riff (my Father recorded Ingman on a number of occasions and even did live TV stuff with him), and the Ventures later in their cover used the Marvin riff, and that makes it obvious what is the original and what is not.

But there is no doubt in my mind that when discussing the roots of The Beatles, the greatest band of all time, just as you cannot explain where Beethoven came from without discussing Mozart, the same applies here.

So many of the above comments are uncalled for – think of all the positive stuff, there is very little in the negative column to consider.

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By: Joseph Bru;s;;h https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/comment-page-1/#comment-439585 Mon, 07 Jul 2014 18:36:29 +0000 http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/cry-for-a-shadow/#comment-439585 I said that American influences had a bigger influence on the Beatles than the Shadows. I also mentioned that the Shadows and Cliff did not succeed in North American like they did in Europe which seemed to upset fans of Cliff and the Shadows. The Beatles did not cover the Shadows on record. But the Beatles did cover Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Larry Williams and other American artists.
As for being influenced by certain riffs and guitar players, I remember at the time George clearly stating in print and in press conferences over here that Chet Atkins and Carl Perkins were a big influence.
I am speaking from my perspective of growing up in North America during the early days of rock and roll. Some people who have commented here on this site only know the 1950’s and 1960’s through reading books and watching videos and dvds.
As for the bashing of Harrison and Lennon here on the Cry For A Shadow site, I don’t take those comments seriously. One basher comment was from someone who didn’t know that the Beat Brothers was the Beatles! Needless to say, the guitar playing of both George and John has been wonderful to listen to for all these years.

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